Episode 641: Garage to Global® / 第641集:Garage toGlobal®


 第641集:Garage to Global®

關於這一集的擴展版本,請看《伊凡的內心世界》內第18單元的兩個一小時的在線講座。


BNI已經有35年的連續增長。這一方面是因為他們有一個很好的理念,另一方面也是因為Misner博士將BNI從Garage到Global®的策略。



在本週的節目中,Misner博士分享了他在這條路上的12條經驗。
  1. 學會在你的業務上下功夫,而不僅僅是在你的業務上下功夫。 (如果你不熟悉這個概念,請閱讀Michael Gerber的《E-Myth》)。
  2. 建立系統,把所有的東西都寫下來,把自己寫的東西教給別人。
  3. 反向設計你的目標。如果你有一個年底的目標,那麼在1月到12月之間,每個月的月底,你需要在哪裡。
  4. 代表。 您必須委派責任和權力。 您委派的每個人都應擁有該職位95%的權限。
  5. 了解你的數字。每天獲取關於你的關鍵成功因素的報告,並儘可能細化。
  6. 做六件事一千次,不是做一千次件事六次。對於BNI來說,就是加會員、加分會、講故事…,堅持是一種超能力。
  7. 讓優秀的人包圍自己。拿起這本書《Who’s In Your Room?》
  8.  作為一家新公司,您無法負擔聘請充滿知識的人。 以很高的態度僱用人並教他們。
  9. 文化吃早餐的策略, 創建令人驚嘆的願景聲明,了解您的核心價值觀,並創建出色的公司文化。 從您的第一位員工開始。
  10. 知道自己的使命
  11. 在火焰中工作,而不是在蠟中工作。 做您熱衷的事情,並僱用人們從事您討厭做的事情。
  12. 分享一個大家都在為之奮鬥的願景。幾十年來,BNI幾乎在每個市場上都佔據了行業的主導地位,因為有共同的願景和共同的執行目標。
Ivan's Inner Circle


本集由伊凡的內心世界贊助。今天就成為我們的創始會員吧!



第641集完整記錄




Priscilla Rice :
大家好,歡迎回到BNI官方播客。我是Priscilla Rice,我從加州伯克利的Live Oak錄音室為大家帶來,今天我在電話中加入了BNI的創始人和首席願景官,Dr. Ivan Misner。你好,Ivan,你今天過得怎麼樣?




Ivan Misner:
我過得很好。這是一個很好的開端,我對今年將為我們帶來什麼感到興奮。



Priscilla Rice:
很好。跟我說說說這一集的標題吧。 "Garage to Global®" 那是什麼?



Ivan Misner :
上週我們談了一個大的起源故事,BNI是如何開始的。我提到了1985年12月,我在1985年1月創辦了BNI,在12月我反思了一下這一年的情況,以及它是如何發展的。我真的很驚訝於BNI如何在商業社會中引起了很大的反響。就在這一點上,我坐下來製定了一個計劃來擴大BNI的規模。

所以我今天想做的是,實際上有一個網絡研討會,你提到 Ivan的內心世界是播客的贊助商,順便說一下,Ivan的內心世界的收益100%都會捐給BNI基金會--我收到的收益100%都會捐給基金會--我做了一個非常長的網絡研討會系列,我是說關於這個主題的兩個一小時的網絡研討會。所以你將會在10分鐘內聽到我在這兩個小時內所講的一些內容,你可以在Ivan內圈上看到。

我談一下我寫下的那些在大學裡不一定能學到的東西,這些東西真正幫助我擴大BNI的規模。讓我們來談談擴大BNI的規模,我們現在有9000多個,超過9300個分會,分佈在70多個國家。

但這是真正令人驚訝的事情,Priscilla 。我們有35年的連續增長。世界上沒有太多公司可以說, 35年的連續增長。在管理學理論中,這個增長圖就是所謂的J曲線。 "J "就像字母J一樣,它是向上的。而我們的組織有35年的連續增長。


我想這是因為有一個很好的概念,但也是因為我們使用的策略。所以我想把我在擴大公司規模的過程中學到的一些經驗教給大家。只是想讓你知道,我們計劃寫一本書。我有一個潛在的合著者。我們計劃寫一本書,"Garage to Global®",如果我們有足夠的時間,我希望能在這裡給大家提供12個概念。

 首先,您必須學習如何開展業務,而不是在你的企業中工作。如果你還沒有讀過這本書,Michael Gerber的《E-Myth》這本書,把它拿起來。這是我當時做的第一件事之一,就是我讀了《E-Myth》,並且學會了不僅在企業中開展業務。 您必須學習如何成為企業家,這與知道如何做有所不同。


第二個策略是建立系統。你必須有系統的流程,然後你必須把所有的事情都寫下來,這都是第二個策略的一部分,把每一件事情都寫下來。然後你要把你寫下來的東西教給別人。因為學習是一個漏桶的過程,東西會漏掉,除非寫下來,並且持續不斷地做。這是第二點,建立系統。


第三點。我們都知道創造目標,我認為目標是非常重要的。但我們往往沒有被教導的是,逆向工程的重要性。所以,無論你設定了什麼目標,你都要對這些目標進行逆向工程。所以,假設你為今年設定了一個目標,2020年。你想做的事,你想在今年年底的時候,你想在哪裡?你想在11月的時候在哪裡?你想在今年10個月後在哪裡,9個月後在哪裡,8個月後在哪裡,7個月後在哪裡。
你要逐月進行逆向工程,這樣在1月末的時候,你看一下你的目標,並將其與實際的目標進行比較,就能馬上告訴你,你做得怎麼樣?發生的事情是人們設定目標,你知道,四,五,六個月後,他們說,「哦,讓我看看我的目標。哦,伙計,我的目標離我的目標還差得太遠了。 」 而這就太晚了。所以說,逆向工程你的目標是擴大業務規模的關鍵因素。


第四:代表。現在,每個人都在談論委派任務。 我將給您兩個委託的概念,您可能會或可能不會聽說。 委派時,不僅要委派責任,還要委派權限。 委託責任和權力。 這意味著有人負責,但他們也有權做出決定。現在,人們會擔心自己會做出錯誤的決定。我現在告訴你,不要擔心這個問題,你只需要準備好在這種情況下指導和引導他們。現在,一個學習者,你不給他們全部的權力,給他們部分的權力。但隨著他們學習的工作越來越多,你給他們越來越多的權限,所以每個人在每個崗位上都應該有95%的權限。而且有一個小的部分,他們必須來找你。如果您不這樣做,那麼公司中的每個人和他們的母親都會來找您,問他們應該做什麼。 一旦發生這種情況,就好像在公司的齒輪上扔了一把活動扳手。 這樣做是行不通的,所以,要把責任和權力放下。


第五: 知道你的數字。不,認真的。知道你的數字,我可以每天告訴你,我們任何組織有多少分會,有多少會員,我們在組織裡沒有多少會員,我每天都會得到一份報告。對於分會的數量和會員的數量。現在,你要盡可能的細化。
如果你是一個新的企業,你可能不一定能拿到那個報告,但你應該能拿到每週的數字報告。每月一次,我認為幾乎是太長了。你至少應該有一份週報,但隨著你的發展,你的員工越來越多,你應該每天都要有一份報告。而你要跟踪的數字就是你的關鍵成功因素。你的KSFs,或KPI,關鍵績效指標,同樣的事情,關鍵的數字將決定你的方向是正確的還是錯誤的,你要比組織中的其他人更了解他們的情況。這是第五項。


第六,你聽我說起過這個,Priscilla。我已經談了很多次關於它的事,這是我認為大多數企業最大的失敗。你要想在商業上取得成功, 做六件事情1000次,而不是1000件事情6次 我認為企業陷入了我所說的發光的物體綜合症。他們不斷地追逐明亮、閃亮的物體,而不是專注於做六件事1000次,順便說一句,不一定是六件事,可以是五件,也可以是七件,你知道,就是在反复地做幾件事,一遍又一遍。
在BNI,就是我們所說的 "三加一"。就是加會員、加分會、充實分會、講故事。這些都是分會的關鍵績效指標。而參與度是地方分會的關鍵因素。所以,我會為地方分會增加參與度。所以,這就是你要反复做的幾件事。

我有一個超能力。 Priscilla,你想知道我的超能力是什麼嗎?




Priscilla Rice
是的,當然



Ivan Misner :
我像一條有骨氣的狗



Priscilla Rice:
我留意到了




Ivan Misner:
 如果說我有什麼超能力的話,那就是堅持不懈,不管你的超能力是什麼,你都要把它發揮出來。但是,你必須堅持不懈的事情之一就是,如果您做六件事1000次,那麼您更有可能擴大公司規模。 如果您不斷追求明亮,閃亮的物體……,企業家是最重要的思想家, 因此,他們不斷提出想法,這使他們的員工四處奔波,試圖做不同的事情。 如果您是個有創意的人,請稍等一下。 與可以幫助您控制它的人在一起,因為它可以完成一千遍六件事。

這讓我們想到了第七點,用優秀的人包圍自己。拿起這本書《Who’s In Your Room?》我在一年前寫了這本書 這是一本關於你身邊的人的書,是一本很好的書。我希望我有那本書--我希望有人寫了那本書,我在1985年讀了這本書,當時我開始做BNI,因為它們是我在與合適的人一起環繞著自己的經驗教訓。拿起一本《Who’s In Your Room?》


第八
你也聽過我說過這個,Priscilla。這都是圍繞在自己身邊的人誰是火上澆油的人。他們會很興奮。現在最理想的事情在火上的知識。但是,如果你是一個新的企業,你不可能買得起火上加火的知識。那太貴了。所以你要找到願意學習的員工。你願意教他們。他們以合理的價格進來,你教他們,他們就火了。我在創辦BNI的時候,就是無知又火熱的份子。我根本不知道怎麼做網絡。在BNI的第一年,我就按部就班的去做了。你可以犯錯,如果你很興奮,你知道,當你犯了錯,你會盡快改正。




第九:
文化把戰略當早餐吃。你的組織文化對你的成功至關重要。創建一個驚人的願景聲明。了解你的核心價值觀。創建一個具有驚人文化的組織,從你有一個員工的時候開始,而不是從你有10個員工的時候開始。你要立即開始,因為我在這裡要告訴你,如果你不創造你的公司文化,你的員工就會創造出你的組織文化,而且這可能不是你所擅長的文化。所以在創建組織文化的時候要儘早開始。




第十:
了解你的使命。真正明確你的使命是什麼。知道你作為一個組織或企業的工作是什麼。 BNI的使命是通過一個結構化的、積極的、專業的轉介計劃,幫助會員增加業務,使他們能夠發展長期的、有意義的關係和轉介。所以你知道,這就是我們的使命。我們知道我們的使命,我們堅守我們的使命,這一點很重要。



在你知道你的任務之後,就會有十一個任務。在你的火焰中工作,而不是在你的蠟中工作。我在BNI播客上講過很多關於這個問題。你在你的火焰中工作是非常重要的,你對你感興趣的事情,你對它充滿了激情。僱人去做你不喜歡做的事情。現在,有時你必須做你必須做的事情,才能做你想做的事情。我明白這一點。所以有時候你必須在你的蠟像中工作,但隨著你的成長,請人在你的蠟像中工作。這是他們的火種,而你在你的火焰裡工作。這就是第11條。




第十二,你必須在公司里分享一個願景,大家都在為之奮鬥。這就是第十二個願景。在BNI,我們的目標是 "改變世界的經營方式",我們的使命很明確。如果每個人都專注於同一件事,就會有驚人的效果。如果一個組織裡所有的人都朝著同一個方向努力,那麼這個組織就能在任何時候,在任何市場上的任何行業中,在任何競爭中,都能稱霸。 BNI在這個行業幾乎在所有的市場上統治了幾十年,對抗所有的競爭。而這一切的發生,是因為有一個共同的願景,並共同執行這個願景。



這就是我如何將BNI從我的〈garage to a global〉的一個非常簡短的課程。如果有人想知道更多的信息,請看Ivan的 Inner Circle。我在這個主題上有幾個小時的內容。

這對你來說就像從消防水管裡喝水,Priscilla



Priscilla Rice:
哇,真神奇。 我有興趣了解更多,因為從一個分會到幾乎....什麼現象,我們現在已超過9300個分會,對嗎? 近10,000個。 這是令人難以置信的。




Ivan Misner
我在1985年的時候就有過一個預測,實際上可能是86年初的時候,我們有一天會有一萬個分會。人們對我說,你 是在做夢。我說,是的,我是在做夢。現在我們就在這裡。今天是我們的30週年紀念日。在未來一兩年內,我們將在全球範圍內擁有超過一萬個分會。



Priscilla Rice:
哇,真不錯。好了,我想這週就到這裡了,Dr. Misner。非常感謝你提供了這麼多的信息。

這個播客有了一個新的讚助商。去看一看www.ivansinnercircle.com,伊凡收集了大量的內容,並邀請你參與其中

非常感謝大家的收聽。我是Priscilla Rice,我們期待著你下週再次加入我們的官方播客,為大家帶來另一個精彩的節目。











Episode 641: Garage to Global®








For an expanded version of the material in this episode, check out the two one-hour webinars for Module 18 of Ivan’s Inner Circle.
BNI has had 35 years of consecutive growth. This was partly because they have a great concept, but also because of the strategies Dr. Misner used to take BNI from Garage to Global®.
In this week’s episode, Dr. Misner shares 12 lessons he’s learned on this path.
  1. Learn to work on your business, not just in your business. (Read The E-Myth by Michael Gerber if you’re not familiar with this concept.)
  2. Create systems, write everything down, and teach people what you’ve written down.
  3. Reverse-engineer your goals. If you have a goal for the end of the year, where do you need to be at the end of each month between January and December.
  4. Delegate. You have to delegate both responsibility and authority. Everyone you delegate should have 95% authority in that position.
  5. Know your numbers. Get daily reports on your key success factors, and get as granular as possible.
  6. Do six things a thousand times, not a thousand things six times. For BNI, it’s adding members, adding chapters, filling chapters, and telling stories. Be a dog with a bone. Persistence is a superpower.
  7. Surround yourself with great people. Pick up the book Who’s In Your Room?
  8. Ignorance on fire is better than knowledge on ice. As a new business, you can’t afford to hire knowledge on fire. Hire people with a great attitude and teach them.
  9. Culture eats strategy for breakfast. Create an amazing vision statement, know your core values, and create a great company culture. Start with your first employee.
  10. Know your mission.
  11. Work in your flame, not in your wax. Do the things you’re passionate about, and hire people to the stuff you hate doing.
  12. Share a vision that everyone is striving towards. BNI has dominated its industry in almost every market for decades because of a shared vision and a shared implementation of that vision.
Ivan's Inner Circle
This episode is sponsored by Ivan’s Inner Circle. Become a founding member today!

Complete Transcript of Episode 641

Priscilla Rice
Hello, everybody and welcome back to the official BNI podcast. I’m Priscilla Rice and I’m coming to you from Live Oak Recording Studio in Berkeley, California. And I’m joined on the phone today by founder and the Chief Visionary Officer of BNI, Dr. Ivan Misner. Hello, Ivan, how are you doing today?
Ivan Misner
I am doing fantastic. It’s a great start of the year and I’m excited about what the this year will hold for us.
Priscilla Rice
Great. Tell me a little bit about this episode title. “Garage to Global®.” What is that?
Ivan Misner
Last week we talked about the big origin story, how BNI got started. And I mentioned that in December of 1985–I started BNI in January of 1985, and in December I reflected on the year and how it went. And I was really surprised at how BNI had really struck a chord in the business community. And that was the point at which I sat down and created a plan to scale BNI.
And so what I want to do today, I actually have a webinar and you mentioned that Ivan’s Inner Circle is the sponsor for the podcast and by the way, 100% of the proceeds from Ivan’s inner circle goes to the BNI Foundation–100% of the proceeds I receive go to the Foundation–and I did a very lengthy webinar series, I mean two one-hour webinars on this topic. So you’re going to get in 10 minutes, some of the stuff that I talk about in the two hours, but it’s available on Ivan’s Inner Circle.
I talk about the things that I wrote down that I didn’t necessarily learn in college that really helped me to scale BNI. And let’s talk about scaling BNI. We now have over 9000, over 9300 chapters in more than 70 countries.
But here’s the really amazing thing, Priscilla. We have 35 years of consecutive growth. There are not too many companies in the world that can say that they’ve not had one year of downward growth. 35 years of consecutive growth. In management theory that growth graph is what’s called a J curve. “J” like the letter J. It just goes up. And we have 35 years of consecutive growth in the organization.
I think it’s because of a great concept but it’s also about the strategy that we’ve used. And so I want to teach some of the lessons that I’ve learned in scaling my company. And just so you know, we plan on writing a book on this. I have a potential co-author. And we’re planning on writing a book, “How to Take Your Business from Garage to Global,” but let me give you some of the concepts. I hope to give you 12 concepts here if we have enough time
First, you have to learn how to work on your business, not in your business. If you have not read the book, The E-myth by Michael Gerber pick it up. It’s one of the first things I did right around that time was I read the E-myth and learned about working on the business not just in the business. You have to learn how to be an entrepreneur, which is different than knowing how to do something.
The second strategy that I employed was creating systems. You have to have systems processes, and then you have to write everything down–this is all part of the second one–to write every thing down. And then you have to teach people what you’ve written down. Because learning is a leaky bucket process, stuff leaks out, unless it’s written down and done consistently. That’s number two, create systems.
Number Three. We all know about creating goals. And I think goals are extremely important. But what we’re often not taught is the importance of reverse engineering your goals. So whatever goals you set, you have to reverse engineer those. So let’s say you’ve set a goal for this year, 2020. What you want to do is you want to reverse engineer that. Where do you want to be at the end of the year? Where do you want to be in November? Where do you want to be 10 months into the year, nine months into the year, eight months into the year, seven months into the year. You want to reverse engineer that month by month so that at the end of January, you look at your goal and compare it to actual, and that tells you right away, how are you doing? And what happens is people set goals and they’re, you know, four, five, six months into it and they say, “Oh, let me look at me look at my goals. Ooh, man, I’m way off.” And that’s way too late. And so reverse engineering your goals is a critical element of scaling your business.
Number Four: Delegate. Now, everyone talks about delegating. I’m going to give you two concepts in delegating, that you may or may not heard of. When you delegate you have to delegate not only responsibility, but authority. Delegate responsibility and authority. That means someone who is responsible, but they also have the authority to make the decisions. Now, people get worried that they’re going to make the wrong decision. I tell you now, don’t worry about that. They will make the wrong decision. And you just need to prepared to coach and guide them when that happens. Now a new person, you know, a learner, you don’t give them full authority, give them partial authority. But as they learn the job more and more and more, you give them more and more authority, so that everyone in every position should have like 95% authority on that position. And there’s a little piece that they got to come to you on. If you don’t do that everybody and their mother in your company is going to be coming to you asking what they should do. And as soon as that happens, it’s like throwing a monkey wrench into the gears of the scaling company. It doesn’t work. So delegate responsibility and authority.
Number Five: Know your numbers. No, seriously. Know your numbers. I can tell you on a daily basis, how many chapters we have any organization and how many members we haven’t in the organization, I get a daily report. For the number of chapters and the number of members. Now, you’ve got to get as granular as possible. If you’re a new business, you might not be able to get that report on a daily basis, but you should be able to get a weekly report on your numbers. Monthly, I think, is almost too long. You should at least have a weekly report. But as you grow and you get more employees, you should get a daily report. And the numbers you want to track are your key success factors. Your KSFs, or KPIs, key performance indicators, same thing, the key numbers that will determine whether you’re going in the right direction or the wrong direction. And you’ve got to know them cold, better than anyone else in the organization. That’s number five.
Number Six. You’ve heard me talk about this one, Priscilla. I’ve talked about it a lot. It’s I think, the biggest failure that most businesses have. You want to be successful in business, do six things 1000 times, not 1000 things six times I think businesses get caught up in what I call bright shiny object syndrome. They’re constantly chasing bright, shiny objects, instead of focusing on doing six things 1000 times, and by the way, it doesn’t have to be six, it can be five, it can be seven, you know, it’s a handful of things over and over and over again. In BNI, it’s what we call “three plus one.” It’s adding members, adding chapters, filling chapters and telling stories. Those are the key performance indicators for chapters. And engagement is a critical element for local chapters. So I would add engagement for a local chapter. So that’s a handful of things you got to do over and over and over again.
I have a superpower. Priscilla, would you like to know what my superpower?
Priscilla Rice
Yeah, definitely.
Ivan Misner
I’m a dog with a bone.
Priscilla Rice
I’ve noticed.
Ivan Misner
If I have any superpower at all, is persistence, and you’ve got to take your superpower whatever it is and put it to work. But one of the things that you got to be consistent with is persistence. If you do six things 1000 times, you are way more likely to be able to scale your company. And if you’re constantly chasing bright, shiny objects… Oftentimes entrepreneurs are the are the big thinkers. And so they keep coming up with ideas, which sends their employees scurrying all around trying to do different things. If you’re an idea person, rein it in a bit. Surround yourself with people who will help you rein it in, because it’s about doing six things a thousand times.
Which brings us to Number Seven, surround yourself with great people. Pick up the book, Who’s in Your Room? I wrote it in about a year ago. It’s a fantastic book about the people that you surround yourself with. I wish I had that book–I wish somebody else wrote that book and I read it in 1985, when I started BNI, because they’re the lessons I learned in surrounding myself with the right people. Pick up a copy of Who’s in Your Room?
Number Eight–and you’ve heard me talk about this one as well, Priscilla. Ignorance on fire is better than knowledge on ice. It’s all about surrounding yourself with people who are on fire. They’re excited. Now the ideal thing is knowledge on fire. But if you’re a new business, you can’t afford knowledge on fire. It’s too expensive. So you got to find employees who are willing to learn. You’re willing to teach them. They come in at a reasonable price, you teach them, and they’re on fire. I was the poster child for ignorance on fire when I started BNI. I had no idea how to network. I method acted my way through the first year of BNI. I figured it out as I went, but I was on fire. And you can make mistakes if you’re excited ,and you know, when you make a mistake, you fix it as quickly as possible. But look for people that are on fire that is critical.
Number Nine: Culture eats strategy for breakfast. Your organizational culture is critical to your success. Create an amazing vision statement. Know your core values. Create an organization with amazing culture and start when you have one employee, not when you have 10 employees. You want to start immediately, because I’m here to tell you, if you don’t create your company’s culture, your employees will and it may not be the culture you’re good at. And so start early in creating organizational culture.
Number Ten. Know your mission. Get really clear about what your mission is. Know what your job as an organization or as a business is. The mission of BNI is to help members increase their business through a structured, positive and professional referral program that enables them to develop long-term, meaningful relationships and referrals. So you know, that’s our mission. We know our mission, we stay true to our mission, it’s important to know that.
After you know your mission comes Number Eleven. Work in your flame, not in your wax. I’ve talked about this on BNI Podcast a lot. It’s so important that you work in your flame, the things that you’re excited about, that you’re passionate about. Hire people to do the stuff you hate doing. Now, sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do to get to do what you want to do. I understand that. So sometimes you have to work in your wax, but as you grow, hire people to work in your wax. It’s their flame, your wax, and you work in your flame. That’s number 11.
And Number Twelve. You’ve got to share a vision in your company that everyone is all striving towards. That’s number twelve. In BNI it’s “Changing the Way the World Does Business,” and we are clear on our mission. And if if everyone is focused on the same thing, it’s amazing what can happen. If all the people in an organization row in the same direction, that organization can dominate any industry in any market against any competition at any time. BNI has dominated this industry in almost every market against all the competition for decades now. And it’s happened because of a shared vision and a shared implementation of that vision.
And so that’s a very short lesson on how I took BNI literally from my garage to a global organization. If anyone’s interested in even more information on that, check out Ivan’s Inner Circle. I’ve got a couple of hours’ worth of content on this very subject.
That was like drinking water from a fire hose there for you, Priscilla.
Priscilla Rice
Wow, that was amazing. I am interested in hearing more about that, because what a phenomenon to go from one chapter to almost–what is it almost, we’re over 9300 chapters now, right? Almost 10,000 chapters. That’s incredible.
Ivan Misner
By the way, I’ll just tell you one quick thing. I had a vision in 1985–actually it’s probably early ’86–that we could someday have 10,000 chapters. People said to me, you’re dreaming. And I said, Yes, I am. And here we are. Today, our 30th anniversary. Within the next year or two, we will have over 10,000 chapters worldwide.
Priscilla Rice
Wow, that’s so neat. Well, I think that’s it for this week, Dr. Misner. Thank you so much for the great information.
This podcast has a new sponsor. Go check out the great content available at www.ivansinnercircle.com, where Ivan has assembled a wide array of topics and you’re invited to participate.
Thank you so much for listening. This is Priscilla Rice, and we look forward to having you join us again next week for another exciting episode of the Official BNI Podcast.
https://www.bnipodcast.com/2020/01/15/bni-garage-to-global/






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